# What is a "euclidean universe" and why does Edward Feser say it proves the existence fo a supernatural creator?

### 6 Answers

- ElizabethLv 78 months ago
This makes no sense to me.

We live in a universe that has certain geometric rules. Euclid, since he lived in this universe, discovered some of those rules.

If we lived in a universe with a different set of geometric rules, Euclid would have investigated those. We'd still call it a Euclidean universe!

So obviously we must live in a universe in which geometric rules exist. No matter what they are, they'd seem designed to us since we were here to investigate them!

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- IridflareLv 78 months ago
I've no idea who Edward Feser is, but I assume he's using some sort of "fine tuning" argument along the lines of "a Euclidian universe is unlikely (unless you actualy know something about it) and therefore goddidit."

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- 8 months ago
It means the universe is flat. In other words no curvature. In fact measurement using the Planck and WMAP satellites proved that the universe is indeed flat within the limits of measurement.

Whatever is measured, theorized or conjectured, someone somewhere will use it as an excuse to support their need for "people" up in the sky, either deities, space monsters or boogiemen, and their need for hands of some description to have fashioned the universe. You can safely ignore their rantings.

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- ReductioAdAstronomicusLv 58 months agoReport
Indeed.

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- Jeffrey KLv 68 months ago
A Euclidean Universe has space with no overall curvature. Rules of Euclidean geometry apply. It is infinite and unbounded. It will expand forever.

I have no idea what connection this has with God or the creation of the universe.

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- daniel gLv 78 months ago
That is the universe of fantasy, like the space between Edward Feser's ears.

It proves nothing, and much less some supernatural entity.

But then again, some still believe the earth is flat.

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- skeptikLv 78 months ago
I'm not familiar with the particular term, but I would guess it refers to a universe composed of "Euclidian Space" - in which the rules of Euclidian Geometry apply throughout. I can't imagine why Feser claims that proves the existence of a creator, since there aren't really any reasons to connect the two.

And of course there's also the problem with what happens if it turns out the universe as a whole ISN'T Euclidean. For example, in a Euclidean plane, the sum of the internal angles of a triangle is 180 degrees. So a triangle can (for instance) only have one right angle. But on the surface of the Earth, you can make triangles that have THREE right angles. So the surface of the Earth is not "Euclidean."

Given the fact that Relativity says space is actually curved, which means its geometry is no longer Euclidean, if that curvature applies to space in general, then the claim is disproved before any conclusions can be based on it.

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