Mack asked in SportsOutdoor RecreationHunting · 5 months ago

What`s the big deal with all numbers match rifle?

I Attended a gun show in my area today and found a selection of Mosin Nagants and prices varied 225-325$. I happened to have a person looking over my shoulder while i was looking at several surplus rifles. So this person gets a nod from the seller and receives the expert on mosin nagants recommendation. He looks at all the numbered pieces and nods okay. In reality i liked one with a nice stock with good bluing and bolt worked nicely and didnt fall open with handle up when i pointed the barrel up.The numbers did not match but was cheaper enough to sway me.

Update:

I bought it. When i got home i measured the bore with a inside hole mic from craftsman which are the kind like a ball split on the end and you turn the end to make the ball bigger then measure with calipers. I measured .303 with a little over. I did turn it opposite of rifling twist as i tightened to slip fit.

I bought a box of 7.62-54r also. I took a new round and grease-stuck a shim cut out of the thin

Update 2:

part of an aluminum drink can and stuck it on the face of the cartridge and loaded it. The bolt handle closed but it felt a little more resistance than without it. I remembered that bit of advice on yahoo answers-hunting section about 3 years ago.

I believe i have a safe shooting rifle but not necessarily a collector even though some parts are not original.

Update 3:

So which is the most important, a rifle with all matching number that may not be safe or one bought like i just described? Even if i bought a collectable i still demand it to be one that i can shoot. Am i too picky?

9 Answers

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  • Best answer

    Truth is... it`s not a big deal unless it`s convenient for the involved persons. How many M1 Garands are guaranteed 100% original and yet they remain collectable?

    The marks on German Mauser parts are stamped to ID the inspectors with personal stamps so somebody gets hung if bad quality slips through the line and collectors thrive on those markings. As far as numbers match just the last few numbers of the serial number are on some parts that could have been added at any time.

    Think about it, an all original is great if all original isn`t worn slap dab out, however, there were some all original Mosin Nagants that are in unissued condition, especially the later manufactured ones. I know, because I own one. I consider my Mosin Nagant a highly collectable...others may not!

    If you have what some are calling a Frankenstein then ok because original worn parts could have been replaced by better ones. I have seen MN bolt head locking lugs sold in bulk as much as 30 items...some marked...some unmarked. So, out of the bunch there may be one or more with the right amount of steel to bring the headspace back into specs. If marked..ok, if unmarked then stamp numbers on it and then ok or don`t stamp number at all and still ok. Get the point? If you are wanting a safe shooting rifle the stamped numbers are not important.

    BTW: You may have gotten the drink can shim advice from me or Gunplumber. I remember we had a similar answer for a budget headspace check. If everything you did with shim is what you say the Mosin Nagant GO gauge would have closed and NO GO would not have closed. You were not the asker. You have about .004" headspace which is factory setting. What about your firing pin height??

    Also, have used the small hole gauges many times. They`re not as good as pin gauges but if you have a bore with .303"+ you have a really nice bore with very little wear. You are lucky to find a 91/30 with both headspace and bore correct. Great buy!

  • Quinn
    Lv 6
    5 months ago

    When all the serial numbers match, it means all the parts were original parts that were used to make the gun when it came out of the factory. It means nothing has been replaced and everything is the original. This makes any out of production guns even more valuable.

    A collector's gun that does not have all matching parts means at some point in the past, a part or parts were replaced due to damage. Or it could also mean the gun was "built" by someone using parts from other guns.

    If it was a good repair job, then functionally it is safe to fire, but collecting-wise it ill be less valued than an original gun.

    But mismatching numbers could also be a sign of a con whereby a disreputable dealer tries to pass off a gun that was never constructed by the original maker as the real deal.

    If you were wanting the rifle for shooting and not for collector's item, then you need to have that rifle inspected just to be sure it is in working condition.

  • 5 months ago

    Matching numbers matter more to collectors. Typically, the closer a firearm is to its original issue condition the more valuable it is to collectors. If it does not have matching numbers it likely has been refurbished and parts come from multiple rifles or the spares bin. Unless it is pristine an original condition rifle may not shot as well as a refurbished rifle.

    • Russ in NOVA
      Lv 7
      5 months agoReport

      I own 12 MNs with bores from .300 to.303+ A .303+ bore on a mosin nagant is significantly worn with lots of muzzle wear. A pristine MN bore measures .300 (land to land) and a standard .30 cal gauge can be used. I have never had a headspace problem and use Firewerks Headspace Gauges for the MN.

  • 5 months ago

    Guns are very dangerous

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  • 5 months ago

    A gun that has matching numbers is original. If the numbers do not match then it is either a rework of an older gun or a combination of guns made from parts. It is like having a 1940 Ford but someone stuck in a 1950 engine. It still works but it is not original.

  • BBean
    Lv 7
    5 months ago

    Truth is... it`s not a big deal unless it`s convenient for the involved persons. How many M1 Garands are guaranteed 100% original and yet they remain collectable?

    The marks on German Mauser parts are stamped to ID the inspectors with personal stamps so somebody gets hung if bad quality slips through the line and collectors thrive on those markings. As far as numbers match just the last few numbers of the serial number are on some parts that could have been added at any time.

    Think about it, an all original is great if all original isn`t worn slap dab out, however, there were some all original Mosin Nagants that are in unissued condition, especially the later manufactured ones. I know, because I own one. I consider my Mosin Nagant a highly collectable...others may not!

    If you have what some are calling a Frankenstein then ok because original worn parts could have been replaced by better ones. I have seen MN bolt head locking lugs sold in bulk as much as 30 items...some marked...some unmarked. So, out of the bunch there may be one or more with the right amount of steel to bring the headspace back into specs. If marked..ok, if unmarked then stamp numbers on it and then ok or don`t stamp number at all and still ok. Get the point? If you are wanting a safe shooting rifle the stamped numbers are not important.

    BTW: You may have gotten the drink can shim advice from me or Gunplumber. I remember we had a similar answer for a budget headspace check. If everything you did with shim is what you say the Mosin Nagant GO gauge would have closed and NO GO would not have closed. You were not the asker. You have about .004" headspace which is factory setting. What about your firing pin height??

    Also, have used the small hole gauges many times. They`re not as good as pin gauges but if you have a bore with .303"+ you have a really nice bore with very little wear. You are lucky to find a 91/30 with both headspace and bore correct. Great buy!

    • BBean
      Lv 7
      5 months agoReport

      Also,RIN, the type measuring tool he is using will measure oversize actual ID being that the split spherical ball is very hard to get an accurate land to land feel. A pin gauge is much better and still .0002"-.0003" has to be added because you cannot measure metal to metal with zero clearance.

  • 5 months ago

    I'm not an M-N fanboy and since they were built by the millions and refurbished through multiple cycles in some cases you ARE lucky to get an all numbers match BUT you're dealing at the same level of Pokemon cards for real meaning to any of it. If it shoots well good, if not well most didn't anyway. I could see buying one when they were $100 or as low as $70 but if you're paying $200 and up then I'll write up some paperwork and start selling bridges ...

  • paul
    Lv 7
    5 months ago

    it just means it was refurbished using parts from different rifles

    • BBean
      Lv 7
      5 months agoReport

      The word "refurbished" is more appropriate than rifle constructed totally from parts from other guns. Good answer.

  • 5 months ago

    When the numbers all match it means it's a factory original. Unmatched numbers means it's been built from several other guns.

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