Anonymous
Anonymous asked in TravelAfrica & Middle EastIsrael · 8 years ago

Strange question: What is Israel's purpose in the Middle-east since its establishment as a state & country?

In what way does Israel influence its neighbours actions? What does Israel serve to function as in the context of its influence on its neighbours and perhaps the world by events there?

There is mystery for me about the WHY of Israel and of Jews, I can't seem to understand them. Is everything Jews do in relation with people of other cultures written in the Torah? Is Israel's actions, whatever those happen to be, a result of something written in the Torah? Are there unquestionable values Jews hold that lead them to act in their way? Or is it in their genetic make-up, are Jews born with a narrow range potential personality traits, i.e. are two random Jews more alike than two random humans of the whole genetic pool of humans?

What is it that Jews value in relationships, if you can tell me without religious jargon? I want to know why Jews act and react to other cultures in the manner that they do. And they perceive a maybe antisemite, why do they act and react in their manner. Why do they care so much about what people say about them? Why is rebuke and censor their reaction, rather than honest debate? Philosophers often talk of extreme circumstance in ethics, yet that does not make the philosophers extremists or even a corrupter of minds, not necessarily and not demonstrably can this be said. If Jews hate generalisations of them by others, why do they make generalisations about antisemites aka "people that have a problem with some aspect of Jews and of their culture(religion, politics, traditions, etc)".

Why is it taken as inherently wrong by Jews for "people to have a problem with some aspect of Jews and of their culture(religion, politics, traditions, etc)"? Why must everything about them be taken as perfect and unquestionable?

Now I understand where Jews are coming from when they really mean "people not just with some problem or disagreement about them *but also a need to act in some belligerent, aggressive and intimidatory manner*". I would not like this either if someone came to me in that way. But I am not against people who have a problem with me, so long as their problem with me is not a lead-on to some form of aggression or violence.

So, do you get me, the difference between (1) "having a problem with" and (2) "feeling violence is the answer", not all people who have problems with Jews (1) like Mel Gibson are of (2) "feeling violence is the answer", he has problems with Jews, maybe because of his Catholicism that he feels conflicts with Jews, but I do not think he is of (2).

I use the word violence as a general case of "behaving in a belligerent, aggressive or intimidatory manner".

So I would define two kinds of people Jews would call 'antisemite':

(1) a mild form: "people that have a problem with some aspect of Jews and of their culture(religion, politics, traditions, etc)"

(2) a severe form: "people that have not just with some problem or disagreement about them *but also a need to act in some belligerent, aggressive and intimidatory manner*"

I believe ONLY (2) is a real threat, I would not like (2) either, but (1) minus (2) is not a real threat, or is it? Why? And I feel (1) can find legitimate avenue in honest debate and dialogue, which I also feel reduces the likelihood and power of (2), because (1) understands you better and (2) are more isolated. Is that not a good plan?

If you can read and understand my query and where I stand, without prejudice, please let me understand you better.

Sorry for all these questions; I really wish to know why you do what you do.

__________

(about my personal philosophy)

I like pancritical rationalism "all positions are criticisable" and I would add "except this" because it is more a tool than a position.

I like Extropianism, about extending human potential both by biological technology in genetics and by machine technology in cybernetics.

I also like to think of society as a machine that can be extended in its potential too.

Update:

If this is the wrong category to get these answers, tell me.

13 Answers

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  • 8 years ago
    Best answer

    Money, to steal more of it you need colonies, and the Arab World is right there in the middle, so we are the target of both east and west whom have been competing for a very long time. The east grabs some (Iran, Lebanon, etc.), the west grabs others ("Israel", "GCC", etc.)...Finally, we the Slaves pay the price for their greed.

  • 3 years ago

    this could be a wierd question. i think of you attempt to intend that united statesa. is being devious some how. yet united statesa. has been quite blatant and above the table approximately helping Israel's activities. So i assume I ought to guess yet another u . s .. mmmm, Ecuador?

  • ipoian
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    I am going to answer your very large question(s) with a very simple answer. Somewhere in the Bible, or is it in the Torah, it is stated that the Jews are God's chosen people. THIS is why they act the way they do and which pisses off the Arabs!

  • Anonymous
    8 years ago

    Okay I'll try to answer.

    Purpose in Middle East:

    Jews have been part of the Middle East for over 3000 years. Longer than since Islam spread or Arabs invaded from Arabia. Those ancient communities were sometimes treated all right, and sometimes members murdered in riots, if the Jews got "too uppity" about wanting their rights and independence. The history of Jews in Europe is also of persecution. When empires were ending and nations forming, Jews too wanted a country and got in line for one w/everyone else.

    When Israel formed as a secular democracy, it brought freedoms and rights and western culture into the Middle East. That was natural for Jews, because Judaism has very much been run as a democracy with no formal authority or leadership for 2000 years. Many Arab rulers saw it as dangerous to their own rulership because it would give their people ideas! That was seen as bad by some religious folks there as invading their space. Others saw it as getting in the way of their political dreams of replacing the fallen Ottoman Turkish Empire w/an Arab empire. There has been competition in Middle East for what empire would rule for ever now, between Turks, Persians, Arabs, & even at points Christians.

    Still others saw Israel as a great thing, bringing freedoms and good economic growth. About 50% of Arabs were for Israel as it was forming. It was when the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem made friends with & admired Hitler that he imported the political idea of not letting Jews have a country.

    If you look outside the news, Israel brings a lot to the region. Jordanian and Egyptian scientists work with Israelis on environmental, and scientific issues. Israel is leader in the world in agriculture in a desert and teaches that around the world. Israel brings democracy, and Arabs see it working and making good lives for it's people, so Arab activists have been trying to bring this to their countries for a long time now. The Lebanese Star has articles on this from time to time, such as comments by Arab opinion writers that maybe Arabs should learn to criticize their leaders the way the Israelis do. With the Arab Springs it's starting up even more.

    On Jews:

    They are humans exactly like every other human. Antisemites thru history paint Jews as "different subhuman" with evil traits. But no, they are humans, some good some bad, same range of human emotions, and choice of actions.

    Israelis are largely sensitive to the past mistreatment of Jews by prejudiced for 2000 years, including many murders, and claims of evilness. So they try to be good about how they handle things. The media loves sensationalism to sell, so they tell from that angle. There is still a lot of religious and political history at Jews, that people inaccurately have inside of them when they view Israel, so reporting isn't always accurate. I suggest to people to try to learn for themselves, by going to Israeli papers, or Jewish websites... to learn what Jews think .... not to antiJewish sources who make up whatever they want. If I want to learn about Spaniards, I go to Spanish people, not to French people writing about Spanish people.

    Judaism itself teaches to be moral, same as most religions teach. It highly values multiple viewpoints,&questioning things. So Jews will often express a lot of opinions &investigate and look for what's true in things. The religion teaches to do that. There is no rebuking of honest debate at all, but quite the opposite.

    Antisemitism

    ""people that have a problem...Jews and of their culture(religion, politics, traditions, etc"

    Here's the crux of the problem. That isn't antisemitism. Jews don't call it antisemitism. Antisemitism is a long history of LIES that lead to a lot of murdering. So Jews are labeled as out to control the world, control media and control money. They are claimed to kill small children for their blood, or that they caused plagues. The Talmud, a Jewish book is faked with awful quotes that ARE NOT IN THE TALMUD. Then hatred is generated at Jews, based on these FAKE things.

    The same thing happens with Israel. So it's fine to complain about Israeli policies. Yet, when it's a twisting falsehood about a policy, Israelis get upset. So the Israeli army works hard to avoid civilian deaths, often using procedures that put their OWN people's lives at increased risk. con't

    Source(s): (For instance going in to arrest a killer of Israeli civilians in terrorist acts on foot which is risker, instead of bombing from the air.) Yet, those who want to get rid of Israel complain about how they purposely target civilians. Those who say false & rotten things about Israel are indeed dangerous. Hitler started with just words, &people who believed negatively about Jews. It took him no time to turn that into violence, because they already believed, even though they weren't violent themselves. There are a lot of options for debate about Israel. However, most of the debate (outside of the Israeli region itself) is just negativity, & not reality. Starting links of perspectives you probably haven't heard yet. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3... http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths3... http://www.religioustolerance.org/jud_pers.htm
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  • 8 years ago

    In the process of asking your question, you've ended up making several observations. It's interesting. (show off! LOL)

    A simplistic peek into their personality is well... read "African Chocolate Thunder Nagga", very well put. I'd like to add too-much-self-sympathy to their complications.

    A more detailed view is hard to put into words. One's a product of historical religious cultural sociological informational economic etc. environment. And to makes things worse, there's parenting involved! (kidding) Even a Jew would not be able to tell you what another Jew is like. Can you tell me what a Protestant is like in general? There's too many other factors right? You can tell me who they're supposed to be. But that's not the question.

    Israel's role in the Middle East is not conspired in any way. Jews lacked a home land. Especially after the holocaust, they felt unsafe. Who wouldn't. I mean come on! They were being butchered like pork! So, partly due to guilt, and mostly because of political and financial interest in the middle east, the whites of the first world, (pardon me; I hope you can accept that phrase in the right spirit; after all during the time, racism was a common practice) led by the Brits, took it upon themselves to deliver them to their promised land, the land they were supposed to have lived in thousands of years ago. You'll find references to this in the Old Testament. Pure coincidence (and quite unfortunate might I add) that the Land falls bang in the middle of Palestine, and very unfortunate for the people of Palestine that they were not consulted by the Brits about whether they're okay with giving their land away to these people; the poor, tired, hungry, tormented refugees of the holocaust.

    Once they had land, the Jews started expanding. And considering the way they were treated for a while, their children having been dehumanized by the horrors they witnessed, their expansion was... well... to say the very, very, VERY least... cruel (such a weak word for what they're up to... but anyway moving on...)

    In the process of making space for themselves, they've (perhaps temporarily, for the purpose of expansion and establishment of their state, but who knows) adopted a brutal apartheid towards the people who were living in the land, the Palestinians.

    But they're useful to the first world. There's a lot of good business to be had there (not just oil mind you) and having a strong, powerful, well funded, first world presence in the middle east and central asia is politically (especially due to cold war paranoia at the time) and economically (agri, infra, trade, spices, african diamonds and ofcourse oil, to mention just a few).

    And we feel very bad and at some level guilty about what happened to them. It was indeed an outrage. So much so that any mention of what they're doing in P'stine is antisemite. Media cannot be found reporting honestly on whats happening because they'd be equated with Jew hating Nazis. Countries can't dare allow their media to represent them as a government that feels no pain for the holocaust. Not one First World leader can comment on the revenge that the Jews of Israel (a country that is ruled by religious fundamentalists called Zionists) are exacting on a people who had nothing to do with their suffering.

    (maybe they're just really angry and need to blow of some *years of* steam)

    Anyone who even does an honest critique of their actions or beliefs (chosen people and what not) are therefore terms antisemite. A word invented during the time Shylock was asking for his pound of flesh, given life by the damned Nazis, and now used by the first world to influence (censor) your opinions.

    Having said all this, you might think even I'm one.

    > In what way does Israel influence its neighbours actions?

    A: Military presence backed by a powerful economy (higher per-capita than the United States) can be a daunting diplomatic adversary in any negotiation. When Israel decides, it is done. They're famous for their strong arm tactics. And they have the best military intelligence in the world. They therefore protect (for their funding brethren) first world interests in the middle east.

    > What does Israel serve to function as in the context of its influence on its neighbours and perhaps the world by events there?

    A: (Im)pure economics. Consider their function as one would the importance of those trade routes of olde'.

    Hope I helped...

    My comment: You know what's really scare? That given enough time (enough savagery by the Israeli army) being antisemite might even become a good thing again. Neo-Nazis already love the word.

    Jeez! What a world!

    (about personal philosophy)

    Me: I am pan-critically rational!

    Friend: ow... does it hurt?

    Me: No stupid. It means I'm totally irreverant!

    Friend: oh yeah! hehe... yeah me too!

    Good stuff mate. You're prophetic. May your consciousness and thoughts proliferate!

    Source(s): For more information: http://www.twnside.org.sg/title2/gtrends115.htm and http://vimeo.com/18582012 and http://vimeo.com/19296421 Watch! And if you're moved, you can follow the Palestinian struggle here: https://www.facebook.com/WAIAP
  • Arilou
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    I'll try and answer you to my best knowledge as both an Israeli and a Jew.

    Israel sole purpose is to exist peacefully and provide security to its citizens, and be a safe haven to Jews around the world.

    why do Jews have problem when people are having problems with them?

    for the past 1600 years (since the Byzantine-Roman empire became christian) Jews were persecuted and treated as second class citizens. why is that? because in the christian new testament it is says there that Jews are the ones responsible for the death of Jesus and this will be the case until the end of time.

    so the church nourished this feeling against Jews (because Jews lived almost everywhere in Europe) and portrayed them as diabolic. why did the church did it? perhaps to make people blame the Jews for everything instead of the church, perhaps to unite the people against a common enemy and so on. one of the earliest pogroms against Jews in history was in Roman time Alexandria, where the Christians attacked the Jews, raped their women and then forced them to leave the city.

    since then it happened a lot in history. add to that the fact that Jews have always been a minority and a close and tight community - and you'll get the perfect scapegoat. there is a plague? blame it on the Jews! something was stolen? blame it on the Jews! etc. so Jews were always being pushed all over the place and bullied. mass murders of Jews happened in christian countries, mass persecutions happened, and deportation of Jews. you can read about the Spanish inquisition for an example, or about how the people of York burned down the entire Jewish community.

    during WW2 the Germans perfected this anti-jewish hate and systematically murdered about 6 million Jews.

    so you might think that in Muslim countries Jews were treated better, right?

    well - while no systematic murder happened there, Jews were considered a 2nd class citizens. ones without rights. for example using a horn (SHOFAR) in holidays was prohibited, building synagogues was commonly prohibited, Jews had to pay a special tax, and in most cases were not protected by the government. so many mass murders of Jewish communities happened throughout the Muslim countries. in 1948 about 1 million Jews were forced to leave all Muslim countries of the middle east, leaving all their property behind.

    so because of this treatment from the rest of the world, jews became very anxious. imagine a kid who is always being bullied and hurt by everyone, blaming him for everything. this kid will fear any kind of noise, and when he'll get older he will use violence against people who'll talk about him.

    also in Israel Jews were murdered, raped, and were treated badly by the Arabs. even during the British mandate over Israel. (eventually the British supported the Arabs, and even armed them to fight Israel in 1948).

    so in Israel we have a say "Never Again" which means that we will never again let anyone control our fate. so when someone in Europe blames the Jews (now it is Zionists) for something - we react. every time an Arab leader talks about the destruction of Israel - we react.

    but there is one problem with that - we still remember how we were treated everywhere in the world, and we try not to be the same. so you don't see IDF erasing whole cities and villages like Russia, the UK, the US, France, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, Egypt and other countries do. we try only to eliminate the "bad people". but those who fight Israel are aware of that weakness and they use it. because of it they use schools and hospitals as armories. they use mosques as launching pads for rockets. and they hide behind children and women when they fight. they also use 14-15-16 years old boys as fighters, and later blame Israel that they kill kids.

    about debate over Judaism - there is a debate now in some countries about circumcision. they think to ban it. this is an important jewish ritual that has been practiced by thousands of years, and now they play the cruelty card. Imaging to yourself that some countries won't allow to baptize kids and babies. the catholic church will be outrageous about it.

    another think that we have learned from our history, is when someone openly says that jews are sub-humans, and that jews should die - we should believe that this is the intention of that person, and act accordingly.

    criticizing specific Israeli actions is fine. Criticizing the existence of Israel is wrong. Criticizing specific actions done by a specific jewish person is fine. criticizing judaism is wrong.

    i hope i answered your question, and now you have a better understanding of the subject. feel free to email me if you'd like to chat over the subject.

  • omg
    Lv 5
    8 years ago

    Jews rebuke beliefs which considered to be anti-Semitic. The fact that you don't come across them is simply because you didn't search enough. Jews are only some 0.2 of the world population, plus Jews have other things to worry about than trying to argue with people that they don't put blood of non-Jewish children in matzas.

    Having complete freedom of press, means having freedom to call for the genocide of Tutzis in Rwanda. It'll let other Hitlers rise to power.

    Belligerent anti-Semites pose a threat, but the passive ones also pose a threat as they encourage people to violence by instilling hatred, or by letting violence occur.

    Jews are not some homogeneous group that you can generalize.

  • 8 years ago

    Your rant is to long, Just ask a question and add a detail or two.

    The Jews for a very long time have been living all over the world.

    They have been mistreated and despised for their religious beliefs.

    After the Holocaust they were given a small bit of land that they

    can call home and live in peace, security and freedom. But this

    was not to be as their neighbors refused to accept them. In spite

    of this they proved to the world that they intend to stay there.

    They are like a candle in the darkness.

  • 8 years ago

    *Many* (not all) Jews are raised to believe that they're from the "chosen people", and when you throw in their ancestor's suffering during the holocaust on top of that... You're left with an arrogant schizophrenic... This is why so many are quick to pull the anti-Semite card during a discussion on Israel... Because they're not doing anything wrong to do the Palestinian people (arrogance), so your comments have to be motivated by prejudice against Jews (schizo).

    Source(s): My opinion, so break your ribs and blow yourself if it offends you.
  • Kevin7
    Lv 7
    8 years ago

    Israel is the ONLY JEWISH STATE.,part of the reason Jews were slaughtered in the Holocaust is because they lacked a homeland

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