I need some ATHEIST help on bible prophecy?
I'm in a serious religious debate with some friends right now, 1 posted the following
"Yes I can explain "Everlasting Gospel, established in eternity". Bible Prophecy is the key. It is the very thing that seperates fact from fiction. In fact, it was and is God's method of distinguishing Himself from idols and heathen gods."
I responded saying "wear is the evidence for this, I'm hoping it's not coming from a book that was written after the event, which says someone predicted something that already happened......."
The next person responded saying
"Bible prophecy was always written before it took place. The topics that were prophesied about vary widely. They range from the birth and life of Christ to historical events like the rising of world kingdoms like medo-persia, greece, and roam."
So I need a response to this, WHEN were most of the main prophecies WRITTEN in correlation to when they happened?
Also if you wanna join it's on facebook, let me know and I'll friend you.
Bible prophecy was always written before it took place. The topics that were prophesied about vary widely. They range from the birth and life of Christ to historical events like the rising of world kingdoms like medo-persia, greece, and roam
Obviously, I wasn't clear enough, I know it's nonsense my point is to prove to a third party sitting on the outside that it is. For example the flood, when was it written down, what book, what is the timeline of that book. Sodom and Gomorrah, when was it destroyed, when was the story written down?
- 1 decade agoBest answer
Some prophecies were written before the fact, others were written after the fact. In other cases, the text was written to make it appear that prophecy was fulfilled. In the last example, the story of Jesus was written to make it appear that prophecy was fulfilled.
One of the most common prophecies that Bible believers use in trying to prove the Bible true is Ezekiel's prophecy about the total destruction of Tyre and that it would never be rebuilt.
Usually Bible believers will refer to Josh McDowell's Evidence that Demands a Verdict to support that argument. However, McDowell grossly misrepresented the facts. In fact, Ezekiel's prophecy about Tyre is a false prophecy, for Tyre is a living city today and it is in the same place it was in ancient times.
The actual city of Tyre was on the island off shore. McDowell lied about Tyre being the city on the mainland because the actual city of Tyre still exists and he wanted to make it appear that the prophecy came true. The city on the mainland was essentially a support settlement for the island city and was called Ushu in ancient times. The island city was called Sur, which means "rock" in Phoenician and referred to the geologic nature of the island; it was called Tsor in Hebrew and that is the word used in the original Hebrew of Ezekiel. In saying that Tyre would be made bare as a rock, he was making a play on the name of the island.
The island city of Tyre had two excellent natural harbors. That is why it gained the prominence it did. The mainland city, on the other hand, does not appear to have had a harbor of any significance.
In his prophecy, Ezekiel said that Nebuchadrezzar would totally destroy Tyre and it would never be rebuilt. Also, Ezekiel was one of those in the Babylonian Captivity when he made his prophecy, and he knew full well of Nebuchadrezzar's plans to attack Tyre. The fact is that Ezekiel prophesied against Tyre because its inhabitants had spoken ill of Jerusalem following its recent destruction as recounted in Ezekiel 26:2-3. The prophecy was therefore against the Tyrians of his own time, not those of several hundred years in the future. That is in contrast to the usual claims that the prophecy was fulfilled by Alexander the Great and Antigonus hundreds of years later.
McDowell also said that the prophesy was made three years before the fact. That is false. McDowell said that in order to make it appear that Ezekiel was making a revelatory prophecy. The prophecy was made in the eleventh year of the Captivity, which was 586 BC, and being one of those in the Babylonian Captivity, Ezekiel would have known full well that Nebuchadrezzar was preparing to attack Tyre. Nebuchadrezzar began his siege of Tyre in 586/5 BC, but, though the siege lasted for 13 years, it was a failure; Nebuchadrezzar did not breach its walls. However, both sides became weary after all those years and an agreement was made that Tyre would become a vassal of Babylon.
Despite its vicisitudes over time, and in stark refutation of Ezekiel's prophecy, the city of Tyre still stands today on what was the original island, which is now connected to the mainland by the causeway that Alexander the Great built.
See Tyre Through the Ages, by Nina Jidejian, and The History of Tyre by H. Jacob Katzenstein.
By the way, Ezekiel also prophesied that Nebuchadrezzar would attack Egypt and that Egypt would be uninhabited for 40 years. That was also a false prophecy.
As for the prophecies about Jesus, one supposed such is that he was born of a Virgin according to Isaiah 7:14, as mentioned in Matthew 1:18.
Isaiah 7:14 was actually about an event that would take place shortly after the prophecy was given, and not hundreds of years later. Read the relevant verses in Isaiah 7:12-16. The child spoken of would be born shortly and shortly after that the land referred to would be forsaken of both its kings. Also, the original Hebrew word translated as "virgin" does not mean virgin. It means "young woman." Isaiah used the original Hebrew word for "virgin" in several other places in his book, so if he meant "virgin" in that passage why didn't he use that Hebrew word?
Matthew was just trying to find justification for saying that Jesus was born of a virgin (a pagan concept about some of their gods). That is why he misquoted the passage in Isaiah.
Hope this helps.
- lainiebskyLv 71 decade ago
Some of the Old Testament prophecies were written after the fact, but most were written before. The thing about the Messianic prophecies is that Christians use passages that the Jews don't recognize as Messianic prophecy at all, passages that really aren't prophecies but are just lines from psalms or general laments.
Many of the prophecies they claim are about Jesus are, when you read them in context, about someone else entirely. Many of the Isaiah prophecies are about the nation of Israel, not about a messiah. The "a virgin shall conceive and bear a son" one is about a situation that happened in the beginning of the reign of King Ahaz, when he was facing the combined armies of Israel and Syria. The prophecy was supposed to be a sign to Ahaz about that situation, not about a messiah that wouldn't come for several more centuries.
Wikipedia actually has a pretty good article on the topic:
- BelieverLv 71 decade ago
The answer depends upon which prophecies you are refering to, but the prophecies of Christ's birth, ministry, betrayal, suffering, cruxification, death, resurrection and ascension were written 700 to 1000 years before His birth.
First of all the Bible prophecies are not vague or nebulous (not like Nostradamus). They are written with great specificity and detail and most important are 100% accurate. It is apparent by your comment that you have never read them. I hope you take some time to do it!
Secondly, the argument that the prophecies were written after the fulfilled events has been proven false. The Dead Sea Scrolls discovered in 1947 revealed one complete handwritten copy of the book of Isaiah plus many partial copies of other books which are several hundred years older than Christ. These scriptures match exactly with our current Bibles and contain many of the prophecies of Jesus Christ.
I sincerely hope that you read these scriptures for yourselves and dig a little deeper to discover the real truth.
- 1 decade ago
Most of the bible wasn't written until 75 to 150 years AFTER the supposed events took place. Even then, we have copies of copies of copies, each of which has been altered due to scribal mistakes and politics
And guess what? The OT was written before the NT, so it doesn't take much for the people writing the NT to make it fit what the OT said
There is not a single word outside the bible to corroborate anything said in the NT. You'd think dead people walking around, virgin births, etc. would've caught the attention of local historians...
Plus, many of the parts of the christian religion are taken from religions of a much earlier timeSource(s): See books by Bart Ehrman
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- Anonymous1 decade ago
any prophecy written, that appears in the bible was written after the fact. The story of Jesus' lineage, as written in the New Testament neatly fits the attempts at qualifying what it would take to be the "messiah" in the old testament . . . . for instance Mary was not of the line of David, but Joseph was, and even though Jesus was conceived by God the fact that Joseph was the nominal father supposedly sufficed to fulfil that part of the prophecy . . . . .
As for corroboration in the very words of the prophecies . . . who said it, who prophecied it, and when.
I'm guessing there is zero evidence other than what was invented hundreds of years after the so'called facts.
- galanLv 43 years ago
There are 2 varieties of such "predictions": The old testomony includes prophesies of a Messiah and it rather is asserted that those have been fulfilled via Jesus, each and every now and then thousands of years later. It sounds very dazzling, different than there is no stable info that the prophecies have been written in the previous the form. somebody those days directed a query at Jews - what do they think of of all this? the respond became into that the prophecies are no longer recent interior the Jewish version of the old books. hyperlinks have been given to academic examine that traced each and every of the commonplace variations, the top being that the Christian version of the books have been rewritten to slot in with the recent testomony. as quickly as I evaluate that many Jewish pupils are prepared to settle for that super arts of their holy books are no longer traditionally precise, I certainly tend to have faith them greater advantageous than the Christian pupils. There additionally are some Christians who declare that each and every person varieties of contemporary activities have been foretold interior the Bible. many human beings have already referred to that for the duration of no case have been any of those "predictions" observed in the previous the activities in question.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
It doesn't matter when they were written, any "prophecy" in the bible is too vague and nebulous to be specifically linked to any real event.
It's like a fortune teller saying that you will meet a tall, dark stranger. You're bound to meet someone at some point who matches that.
Interestingly, there IS an old testament prophecy about the coming of Christ....made by God himself. Except that the name of this supposed coming saviour was Elijah. WHOOPS!
- AlexisLv 71 decade ago
Tell them that the prediction of future events involving nondeterministic matter/energy systems in a dynamic temporal continuum is a violation of the Law of Causality, which is one of the two most fundamental and inviolable laws the govern the way the universe operates.
You can't predict the future, period. "Prophesies" are vague and essentially meaningless, and that's when they're legitimately written prior to the supposed future event they predict.
You know why there aren't any meaningful prophesies being made and fulfilled in today's world of recordable media and scientific investigation? It's because prophesy is a large cloth receptacle containing semi-solid animal excrement.
- MetzaeLv 51 decade ago
Biblical prophecy is complete nonsense. The debate should end right there.
Oh, and the phrase "was always written before it took place" makes zero sense.
- Christian101Lv 51 decade ago
your friend is right. The only argument you have is the lame--"oh, the prohesies weren't really fulfilled", by twisting semantics and such
For example read many of the responses above this one. They provide no evidence, grounds or warrants. They just say "Bible prophesies aren't reliable," as if that's all you need to say, but I'm sure the Christian will pull up more examples of proven prophesies and you'll be stuck again.