Straight from the horses mouth......?
I admit it-I was once a 9/11 truther. I was also pretty far left in the past too.
I started thinking more rationally though, and came to my senses.
Now that I have, I have been studying how conspiracy theories work-and have come up with these signs of a conspiracy theory-
1. An intense hatred/fear or denial of the perpetrators of the conspiracy
2. Outright denial of any evidence that challenges the theory
3. Multiple and even contradictory arguments on the same theory
4. Belief that all others are blind sheep
5. The theory cannot die regardless of any evidence against it (Elvis is still alive, the moon landing was fake, lizard people secretly rule the world, this or that group secretly controls the world, 9/11 was an inside job and Obama was born in Kenya)
Those were all present in me at that time.
As a far leftist, I was opposed outright to anything Bush did-because I was lead to think that way.
The human mind wants shortcuts-it want's someone or something to hate.
What better way than a conspiracy theory that targets that someone/something?
So my question is-
Straight form the horses mouth-isn't the "truther" movement just like the "birther" movement?
John-You copy/pasted that entire thing, I checked-it's on several different websites.
I did the same thing, too when I was a 9/11 truther.
Anti-Silence-That 9/11 was used as an excuse for much of what happened and is still happening, I will not deny. But that it was orchestrated by the many ways I was told it was, I do consider now ridiculous.
Justgoodfolk-Yes, I mean Far Left from the American Perspective.
In any case, I was at first a strict adherent, then as you say-an agnostic on the issue.
I do, however-want to take time to thank you and others who were patient with me on the matter though and helped me to see what I was unwilling to see before-as it was less than a year ago that I still had some belief in the theory.
- justgoodfolkLv 71 decade agoBest answer
I was never a truther but what I would call agnostic. I don't think highly of the American government, hated Bush and am not in denial about the extent American security agencies are willing to go. Quite frankly I still and probably never will hold the CIA above inside jobs in theory, they did it in other countries enough to know they're no angles. But as I've told many truthers by now even if that's100 true (that the CIA would carry out an inside job if ordered) it proofs nothing about 911 itself.
So I was agnostic for a while meaning I believed I didn't know but also that there were questions about the official story that needed answers. Still it didn't take me long to get annoyed and disgusted with the propaganda techniques and rhetorical forms employed by some prominent and notorious leaders of the truth movement. Then I discovered they told lies. A movement carrying truth in its name taking the truth very loosely and sometimes even lying? Very strange. Then it happened. I concluded the inside job pushers were liars and frauds after learning more and more lies, not mistakes misinterpretations but lies. I also understood the political corners they originated and backed of in disgust. That got me into conflict with truthers who agreed with me there was so much disinfo but insisted I should check this out or that
Well I did and that's exactly the reason why I'm no longer an agnostic but became a hardcore debunker.
The truth movement doesn't get things wrong, they deliberately lie, mislead and scam. Not the overwhelming majority of their claims is false, not most, not too much. It's every single thing they say, claim and try to push into the collective conscious. Also the degree of their lies, how far they go and all that while calling themselves "truth" movement is shocking
Norad didn't stand down. When you blow all the dust of that lie all they have is a manual of a flying simulator. Seriously, no kidding
Towers didn't fall at free fall speed
* In every video and photo you can see the perimeter columns far outpacing the collapse.
* The building took over 12-16 seconds to completely collapse. The actual event was covered by debris so no one can say for sure. One rare video has the south tower collapsing at about 22 seconds.
* Conspiracy theorists cut their videos out when the perimeter columns hit the ground and not the building.
The debris was not "shipped of to China before anyone could investigate" but thoroughly examined by FBI and other experts at Staten Island
The sad thing is it doesn't matter though that I could post hundreds of examples like that for truthers. That alone should open anyone who's on the fence eyes. Truthers however? They will just say yeah but what about this and that and such and so? It's pointless
The conspiracy mongers love use the name Orwell a lot but the most Orwellian thing I've ever seen is the group calling itself 911 "truth" movement.
For me it's above question 911 was used and abused domestically and in foreign policy but that doesn't proof 911 was an inside job. As everyone who knows me knows I don't support the wars in Iraq not Afghanistan and do consider the "war on terror" a scam. There is no contradiction between those positions.
If a car crashes in my street and I steal the drivers wallet while he's unconscious or dead am I really better than the person who would make a car crash to steal that wallet? Truthers with this inside job fetish seem to believe the fact I stole the wallet proofs I made the car crash. To take that analogy even further they derail and obstruct any investigation into my theft and crimes by insisting I made the car crash in spite of the overwhelming evidence that's simply not the case. In that light, if I was this thief, might even welcome and want to encourage these misguided folks because their actions seem very successful at keeping me off the hook.
Yes the truther and birther movement are interchangeable. EDIT On a sidenote if you had been far left enough you might have very well have recognized the nonsense earlier. I think you mean you were far left from an American perspective.
For zee ster and anyone else interested
That someone from Denmark chooses to repeat nonsense of Steven Jones changes nothing. Sorry.
Again if anything this is painful for people appealing to the truth to sell it
Thank you Travis. You were never agressive though which can't be said about most of my former truther friends unfortuantely. I hope I can count on you to be honest too when I go astray and leave the path of reason.
People will see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe. Because rubbing someone's face in their own absurd beliefs only makes them close their eyes tighter
And I'm also reminded of the Q we met if you remember. That was actually inspired by my run inns with 911 truthers.. Weird.
"The most perfidious way of harming a cause consists of defending it deliberately with faulty arguments."
To me that says it all about 911 truthSource(s): http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-921691999... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AtXIA... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=Av7qI... http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200808...
- Libertine SaintLv 61 decade ago
It might very well be, but false flag operations have been used by this country in the past, only not against their own people as far as we know of. I know that I am not a Truther, but there is some compelling evidence. One of the differences with the Birther phenomenon is the fct that Obama's BC has been released, and there is a newspaper article saying the baby was born in Hawaii. Because the mother is American, her offspring would be American. There would be no reason to call from Kenya to plant an article. I know I am satisfied.
- Zee-sterLv 71 decade ago
41 U.S. Counter-Terrorism and Intelligence Agency Veterans Challenge the Official Account of 9/11
29 Structural & Civil Engineers Cite Evidence for Controlled Explosive Demolition in Collapses of All 3 WTC High-Rises on 9/11 – More than 700 architects and engineers have joined call for new investigation, faulting official collapse reports
25 U.S. Military Officers Challenge Official Account of 9/11
8 Senior Republican Administration Appointees Challenge Official Account of 9/11
Many well known and respected senior U.S. military officers, intelligence services and law enforcement veterans, and government officials have expressed significant criticism of the 9/11 Commission Report or have made public statements that contradict the Report. For those of you who care to read about what they have to say about it go to: http://patriotsquestion911.com/
Just one nugget came from not a conspiracy theory left/right/wing/nut job but from a man who served our country, Lt. Col. Jeff Latas, U.S. Air Force (ret):
"After I did my own analysis of it, it's obvious that there's discrepancies between the two stories; between the 9/11 Commission and the flight data recorder information. And I think that's where we really need to focus a lot of our attention to get the help that we need in order to put pressure on government agencies to actually do a real investigation of 9/11. And not just from a security standpoint, but from even an aviation standpoint, like any accident investigation would actually help the aviators out by finding reasons for things happening. ...
The things that really got my attention were the amount of descent rate that you had to have at the end of the flight, of Flight 77, that would have made it practically impossible to hit the light poles."
Edit: Both John & I copied info from the internet. That's not the point. The point is that there's something foul in Denmark and plenty of people in authority who question the official story and well we should. Those towers went down demolition style. WMD "bin Laden's just not that important to me" anyone? Come on. This thing stinks to high heaven and neocons used it for all it's worth.
- pizzballpeteLv 41 decade ago
why do you people always tie Elvis and Lizard People and the Obama thing or all the conspirecy theories together........?
do you think that by throwing a Elvis Theory in with Solid Facts about 911 it gives you the sense that ALL of them are Discredited and Wacky if you tie it in with one that is.........?
Sorry, but just cause YOU say it ain't so don't mean it ain't so and vice versa~!
edit: it sounds as though you are caving in to the Pressure of the Ditto-Heads that want you to Conform and stay Dummied Down so you will feel all Warm and Cozy with your Illusion os Safety and Sanity, and the Psuedo- "All American Good Ole Boy"~!
of course that is just MY Humble Opinion~!Source(s): pizzballpete!
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- ZenmeisterLv 41 decade ago
I don't believe too many conspiracies, but there is something terribly wrong with 9.11. I don't even want to start with all the inconsistencies of the story and all the holes, and the blatant mistakes.
- EuniceLv 44 years ago
We're always chompin on the bit, the bit that says neigh, neigh, neighbours around the bend bend bend over and dont be sad sad saddler up, up up there you go nice and straight again. ????
- Anonymous1 decade ago
In the sense that there is NO real evidence...yes.
I feel the same way as you in almost everything that you just said.
I do however, can't help to believe that there was more to 9/11 though for my own reasons.
The birthers have NO proof at all. There is more proof that he was born here.
I really don't even care either way though.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
Touche', you've hit the nail on the head and closed the coffin with one blow.
I base my principle of the BC debacle as there's never smoke without fire, too much has been concealed from the American public and if it ever emerges all hell is going to break loose and perhaps that is why people are trying to push it under the carpet.
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I prefer to discuss this issue or any other issues for that matter freely.
- 1 decade ago
and its honest questions and analysis like this which gives you a star and a place in my contacts =P