How to "die" while alive?
"As long as you do not die while living...how will you obtain true benefit....therefore die and come out of your body. You have died many times...yet still you remain behind the veil....for the method of true dying....you did not learn."
What do those words mean?
- PremaLv 41 decade agoBest answer
What Rumi is indicating is that to obtain liberation one must obliterate the ego, and the false identities it has imposed upon the true undefinable nature "now" before the temporal body inhabited perishes. Once the mistaken identity has experienced death, it's grip on the body/mind mechanism will be lifted exposing the real, which is eternal and not subject to death. In terms of energy this is the separation of spirit from matter, unmanifest from manifest. The veil is a representation of the illusion of the "I am the body" idea, which keeps one firmly encased in the manifest unaware of their true unborn nature. Through the unmanifest principle the perceived cycle of birth and death will continue to occur until the death of the current ego that binds one in temporal bodies happens. The death of the ego, its concepts, assumptions and falsehoods pertaining to bodily attachment and perceived individual identities is the true dying Rumi indicates. Thus, the true benefit is the death of "I am the body" while experiencing consciousness now, culminating in the highest knowledge, Self-realization, liberation, moksha salvation etc... Words cannot define the state, but the one who has understood what Rumi presents has status as "Jivanmukta" and is considered liberated while living.
- Thimmappa M.S.Lv 71 decade ago
Everything in this ever changing world is dying every moment and reliving every moment! Like body cells dying seconds and new cells emerging soon after. Unless we die to the old, new can not arrive. We can not remain afresh and alive until the old garbage is removed. Die to the past so that we can live to the Present.Every death is an opportunity for the rebirth of a new Order!
- naughtyLv 61 decade ago
If we live intensely in the present moment with awareness past does not interfere in the present.Dying to the past i.e
dying to the known is to die while alive.When Rumi says die and come out of your body he means unless we die to the known like this and nullify the identity with the body-mind through
awareness there is no benefit of dying in the sense that the
contents of the mind does not change even if we die any number of times without transformation because we have not learned
the art of dying.If we die without dying while living we continue
to live with self-ignorance.If there is self-ignorance even if we die any number of times we do not learn the art of dying which
is to die while alive.
- robert sLv 51 decade ago
Surrender yourself to the spirit of immortality. In this you shall remove yourself from the mortal mediocrity of existence. In so doing you will have died to this mortal realm and are able to embrace the essence of the true being.
The gardener taoist monk Bunan wrote: " Die while you're alive and be absolutely dead, then you can do anything it's all good." I hope this answer gets me 10 points.
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- 1 decade ago
It is sometimes said, "Die before you die." The self that you imagine yourself to be is a delusion arising from a false identification, referred to as ego. Awakening is simply the realization that You were never a person, and so it is the ending of the delusion of egoic identity. To the imaginary ego, this ending feels very much like an existential death. Nothing, of course, actually dies, either in ego death or physical death, because nothing was ever born. You are eternal, unchanging.
- MR.QALv 51 decade ago
Back to your main question about HOW, there are a variety of techniques to help you and they can be found all over the web. so instead, I will tell you what worked for me. my first breakthrough to a whole different world (not OBE in this world) occurred when lying straight on stomach, chin up on a bed keeping my conscious running for as long as i can. at the end of second consecutive day (i did not stop in between), my body got tired and feel asleep and i could not feel anything, but my mind was still awake. my mind was drifting in 3D darkness (not 2D like when you close your eyelids) and something extraordinary occured.
I have spend a little bit of time to study other techniques, and i think the key is being able to 1. clear your mind while being aware 2. complete rejection of material world easiest obtain when body is asleep 3. remembering it all (if you comeback to this world). there are bunch of exercises to help you prepare.
here is some additional tips that you won't hear that you can try:
1. use a 30 degree angle laying/sitting posture. the trouble with most situp meditation posture is you know are you sitting up because there is the bodily feedback. laying flat on a bed is too comfortable for people to keep awake so i recommend a half way technique. comfortable enough to help you escape from your body, yet you won't just fall asleep.
2. do your meditation 4 am in the morning. your body will want to go asleep quickly so use that phenomenon to your advantage.
3. to prevent your head from going to asleep, you might want to try some sort of wakeup signal like having your forearm up and when it drops, you know your body is almost gone. and about time to fireup your awareness. at least for me, there is a period of complete blank in between the transition.
4. people have all kinds of feedback sometimes bad things happened. if you are fearful or frighten, you can try doing it in the morning or afternoon. the day time should help you calm your fears. and here i have to put a disclaimer that i'm in no way responsible for damages, harm, losses, or anything else that result from using my information.
5. oh yea, very important: leave a note. if you succeed, you may not come back to this world and people in this world wants to know what's going on.
6. also important: leave paper and pencil to record your experiences. it might become valuable to you. i don't know why we forget when we enter this world, i just know it is very easy to lose things. jot down only the facts, interpret them or compare with others later in another sketch.
- finn mchuilLv 61 decade ago
this is a concept that I understand some times yet loose at others. In living, we all too often seek the eternal, external satisfaction and hapiness. We can become trapped by all that is without but that which hasn`t come from within. True contentment comes to us from that which we bring from within, to all else we must be dead.
mmmmmmmmm maybe I haven`t got this concept after all lol
- Just BeLv 71 decade ago
We remain slaves to the false self, we have our identity firmly rooted in ego, we feel it's feelings, believe it's thoughts are our thoughts, we believe it is us. Until we can die to the ego, move our identity to the real self we will stay trapped in this cycle of doing the same old same old, lifetime after lifetime, never realizing that we are not experiencing true life.
How to die to the false self while alive? Many Mystics have gone before us in all beliefs & Faiths to point the way. Willingness to let go of everything you believed to be true, devotion to a chosen way, & absolute obsession are needed to start. Giving up something that you honestly believe is you can be difficult & can seem overwhelming. A spiritual guide or Mentor is desired to help us from straying, in the beginning we are easily led astray.
Thank you, I love Rumi!
- Anonymous1 decade ago
I think I have that poem somewhere also, because I remember the phrase 'you have died many times yet still you remain behind the veil' I remember it kind of slapped me in the face because its so real.
I think it means that we are afraid to live for the soul, or to surrender to it. as close as we are to death , if we still cling to one thing it is still not surrender. dying is giving up your need to know, to understand, to control.
I think this is the same poem or at least a similiar one that you are citing:
"Your agony will not end until you die...
know that as long as our little stars are visible,
the Sun of the world has not appeared.
Wield the mace against yourself: shatter egoism into pieces"
-Mathnawi, VI, 753 Rumi
- ?Lv 61 decade ago
Rumi, student of the great Shamus-i-Tabriz (Sun of Tabriz) is referring to the "dying daily" as it is often referred to. It is the curious task and ability for some (or many) of slipping out of the body and into what is sometimes called the light body as relates to the heavens, universes, and worlds of matter, energy, space, and time -- the worlds of duality -- below the Great Divide. But it can also refer to the movement out of the body in the true form -- Soul Itself -- whose true home is above the forementioned -- above the Great Divide, and where there is not travel at all but simply, being. [by travel one is implying that there exists matter, space and time to 'travel in or around or through'] But when falls into sleep, one is at once out of the body, sometimes manifesting in the form of the dream state, but few are there who know to step into the dream and take over: this is the true dying-daily expressing.
By the statement "You have died many times" he imparts a two-fold meaning: first, that Soul incarnates untold numbers of times; second, that one dies daily when, saying again, one falls into the sleep state, which we are seldom if ever aware of if not trained or been trained to keep of awareness during the sleep state through spiritual exercising, which practice is, say, analogous to one who undertakes daily physical exercising-sets to keep the physical body in condition.
As to the meaning, "remain behind the veil," well, we can suppose this is self-explanatory but in any case has as well a two-fold meaning: first, those who simply are not aware and awakened to the true underpinnings of life as relates to the other worlds except that which orthodoxy and the social engineers espouse and to which people are made to believe and live by and assume as true; second, he conveys of the real and true demarcation between the physical plane and that of the countless other veils and planes that proceed ever-upward, without limit. Because for each plane, there is one above it.
Both these masters (or teachers or coaches) were (and are) just that -- masters, high spiritual masters of the spiritual sciences, and as well artists who knew (and know) well the art of dying daily, who knew to ride the Winds, the heavenly Ethers.